Two Important Events

Transcript Two Important Events

Kevin Harris: Thanks for joining us on the Reasonable Faith podcast with Dr. William Lance Craig. I'm Kevin Harris in studio with Dr. Craig. Two things happened November 2010, Bill, that we want to talk about in depth: and one was the On Guard conference, named after your book On Guard, which is available at ReasonableFaith.org, and also the Set Forth Your Case conference. Now, two conferences, back to back, which probably wore you out a little bit.

Dr. Craig: It was a very busy month. And sandwiched in between these two is the trip to Mexico City for the Ciudad de las Ideas conference, so it was a very busy month. But these two conferences were very exciting, Kevin, and yet very different. One was put on by the local chapter of Reasonable Faith in Dallas, which is headed up by Chris Shannon, and Chris is just a tireless worker. He's a volunteer, not paid in any way for all of the hours he puts in, and he approached various churches in the Dallas area about this idea of having an apologetics conference. And he had difficulty convincing any church that this would be a worthwhile thing to do. But he began to talk with Charles Stalfus at Denton Bible Church. Well, Charles and I go back a long way. He helped to organize my debate with Marcus Borg at North Texas State University, which was put on by Denton Bible back in the 90’s. And so Charles immediately jumped at the chance of having this conference held at Denton Bible Church. And Tommy Nelson, the pastor, was on board and very enthusiastic. So we had this Friday night, all day Saturday conference, and then I spoke in the morning services on Sunday. And the Reasonable Faith chapter not only partners with Denton Bible to put this on, but they also partnered with the apologetics department at BIOLA University, and the BIOLA folks helped to get other speakers involved in this conference, like J. P. Moreland and Craig Hazen from BIOLA, Paul Nelson, the intelligent design theorist, Sean McDowell was there as kind of an appeal to the younger crowd. So they had a really good line-up of speakers that the BIOLA department was able to help put together. And then the BIOLA people brought about 1400 pieces of literature or books or DVDs or things of that sort, as well as the On Guard book.

The conference was called On Guard, and it was coupled with the book, so that it was a chance to help people get into the book, to be equipped, but then also to hear these inspiring and instructive speakers. So it combined a number of elements in putting this conference together, and it went so well that we think we're going to continue doing this, now, in 2011 as well—hold these On Guard conferences where the conference will be coupled with the book, with a view toward giving people a resource that they can take away from the conference and continue to study and be equipped in. It was interesting, Kevin, because the BIOLA people sold out of all of the material that they brought with them, except for a small stack of Reasonable Faith workbooks, about as high as your palm—that was all that was left out of all the material they had brought. So the people there were just extremely hungry and receptive for this material, and Chris Shannon just couldn't have been more thrilled with the response to the conference.

Kevin Harris: We appreciate that—we appreciate Chris' work. And I want to encourage people to have, to form, to get involved in a Reasonable Faith chapter in your area. Start one. And there's instructions on how to do that at ReasonableFaith.org. First, it's a lot of fun because you get together with like-minded people and you talk about, in my opinion, the most exciting things in the world: you talk about God, and apologetics, and philosophy, and the things pertaining to the big questions of life. And so not only is it a lot of fun, but you learn a lot, and it could culminate into a conference like this, which would be so good. It's funny, Bill, because only about three weeks or so before the On Guard conference the Texas Freethinkers conference was also held in Dallas – I don't know how well attended it was – but I know that a lot of people who went to that, some of my atheist friends, also went to On Guard.

Dr. Craig: Oh really?

Kevin Harris: Yeah, and they were interested. Now, that's what I want to encourage our atheist friends to do—go to it.

Dr. Craig: Sure.

Kevin Harris: And get some information. It's amazing how many of my atheist friends are interested in these topic, obviously. [1] But I also have some atheist friends who call these the Convert The Heathen Conferences where you go to learn to convert the heathen, and they try to stay away from them. I wouldn't characterize it as a Convert the Heathen Conference. [laughter]

Dr. Craig: No, I wouldn't at all. I mean, quite honestly, Kevin, if they were to come to one of these I don't think they would feel that way, that they were in any way under pressure or duress. I think they would find these conferences to be a tremendously welcoming environment, really warm and friendly. And people, as you say, are interested in being able to give a reason for the hope that's in them. And a lot of it is actually directed toward one's own Christian discipleship, not converting somebody else, but helping you yourself to have a deeper and more grounded faith.

Kevin Harris: That's so important—that is so important because this is not a conference where you go and learn 'if they say this then you say this' and 'if he says A then you say B'. I mean, well, there are tactics and strategies for knocking down unnecessary barriers to faith in Christ – and that's what apologetics does – but, boy, it's so important, Bill, we have to emphasize again that this gives you such a stronger and deeper walk with the Lord, to get into the things of God in the area of the mind that God has given you.

Dr. Craig: Yeah, this has been one of the things, Kevin, that has been a revelation to me, that I had never expected when we started doing Reasonable Faith. I thought that this sort of study and discipline in people’s lives would bring them a deeper intellectual appreciation of their faith, a more well-grounded faith, and so forth. But what I never anticipated, Kevin, was the spiritual impact that this has on people's lives. When people suddenly become confident, that this is really the truth, and that there are good reasons to believe it, it results in a spiritual awakening in some people. And many have said to me: “I've never felt so alive in my Christian life; I've never felt so close to God before; this has revived my Christian walk.” And that was something I never anticipated. Alex McFarland has said to me that he thinks the next great revival in this country will be brought on by study of apologetics, and he may well be right.

Kevin Harris: I think he is so right. And I've had people tell me time and time again, Bill, and you've probably heard it too – and it happened to me when I was thirty years old – I felt like my world had ended, I felt like the bottom just dropped off, I was at a very, very low point. But the only thing that got me through was 'Jesus rose again from the dead.' I didn't feel good, I wasn't raising my hands in praise or anything, I was on the floor, but what sustained me is I know Christ is who he claimed to be.

Dr. Craig: Yeah.

Kevin Harris: And that's because I've studied the grounds for my faith whenever my faith is shaken. And I've heard that a million times. Sometimes you just have to say 'God exists; Jesus is his son, and God raised Jesus from the dead.' And then get up.

Dr. Craig: Yeah, and that's a foundation you can build on.

Kevin Harris: Yes. Good feelings—you can get happy later. [laughter] You know—so this is a discipleship issue as well as the ability to become a better, more equipped ambassador for Christ.

Dr. Craig: Right, it's both about evangelism but also about discipleship, as you say.

Kevin Harris: J. P. Moreland spoke at this – your colleague – and he speaks on knowledge, the mind, kind of some areas of his.

Dr. Craig: Right, one of J. P.'s emphases that I think is valuable and needs to be recaptured by the church is that Christianity is not just a faith tradition, as he puts it, it is a knowledge tradition. That is to say, theology imparts knowledge—knowledge of reality. It is a way of knowing something, not just a way of believing something. And so J. P. has a very strong emphasis that Christianity is a knowledge tradition. And that flies in the face of scientific naturalism and modernism, which says that science and science alone is the source and arbiter of knowledge, and if you can't prove something scientifically then it cannot be known. And what J. P., I think, is emphasizing is that knowledge is much broader than what the five senses mediate to us.

Kevin Harris: There's a picture on the newsletter at ReasonableFaith.org of you surrounded by young people, and that was kind of refreshing at this conference.

Dr. Craig: Yes, there were lots of twenty-somethings and under, teenagers, at this conference in Dallas, and that was very encouraging to see.

Kevin Harris: The other conference that took place in November was the Set Forth Your Case conference.

Dr. Craig: This is sponsored by the Evangelical Philosophical Society, [2] which is the largest professional society of Christian philosophers in the world. And every year in conjunction with our annual academic meeting we put on an apologetics conference at a local church in the city in which the annual convention is being held. And the annual convention moves around from year to year, and this year we were back in Atlanta. And so since we're headquartered in Atlanta, that gave us the opportunity to host the apologetics conference in Johnson Ferry Baptist Church, which is our home church in Atlanta. And so it was a tremendous privilege to be involved in the planing and the ground work and the preparation for having this conference on Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday, during the time that the EPS conference was going on down in the city.

Kevin Harris: Who were some of the speakers who were there?

Dr. Craig: Well, our featured opening plenary speaker was Alvin Plantinga, who has been regarded by many as the greatest living Christian philosopher. And the people here at the church were very excited to hear Professor Plantinga. It was interesting afterwards, Kevin, we had a book signing area where the speakers could sit and sign books. And there was a line all down the wall and across the room, waiting in line for Plantinga to sign books. And I thought to myself, “I'll bet Alvin Plantinga has never, ever in his life had a line of people like this for him to sign books.” But he was like a rockstar for the people here to see him, and they knew who he was, they understood the caliber of his thought. He did his best to communicate on a lay-level – to bring it down to a level that was understandable – and people really listened carefully and strained to understand all he said. So it was just a great meeting of the minds when he spoke. And then in addition to that we had Gary Habermas speak, I gave a plenary talk, and then Randy Newman gave a very engaging talk on conversational evangelism and described his background as a Jewish believer, having come to believe in Christ, and what it was like sharing his faith in Christ with his Jewish family—it was very, very interesting.

Kevin Harris: Did you have some time to spend with Alvin Plantinga?

Dr. Craig: Just a very little bit because I had responsibilities in the conference. But talked a little bit with him about his adjustments in going back to Grand Rapids, leaving Notre Dame. And I was a little surprised to hear from him how much he misses the graduate students at Notre Dame—he really misses them. And I think it's been an adjustment for them, going back to Grand Rapids.

Kevin Harris: He's retired, right?

Dr. Craig: Yes, he's retired now from Notre Dame. And he said this a number of times – not just once – how much he missed the grad students at Notre Dame.

Kevin Harris: I bet. Is he going to continue to write?

Dr. Craig: Oh, of course. He'll be writing, and I think he may be doing an occasional seminar at Calvin Theological Seminary at Grand Rapids, as well.

Kevin Harris: Now, Bill, to many of us Alvin Plantinga is a rockstar. But to those who have not had an opportunity to become familiar with him or with some of his work, give us kind of a thumbnail of Alvin Plantinga.

Dr. Craig: Well, I think the thing to understand about Plantinga is that he helped to spear-head the revolution in Christian philosophy that began in the late 1960s, is ongoing today, and has transformed the face of Anglo-American philosophy. When you compare philosophy today in the Anglo-America world to what it was like back in the 1930s and 1940s, even the 1950s, it's like night and day. Back in the heyday of logical positivism talk about God was regarded widely as just meaningless gibberish, and there were no prominent Christian philosophers that were making much of an impact. Now, I don't want to diminish people like Peter Geach, for example, or John Lucas, who were great philosophers, and were also Christians, but the thing that was new about Plantinga, when he came along in the 1960s, is that he did philosophy from a Christian perspective—unapologetically so. He said, “I approach these questions as a Christian, and this is how I see them.” And so with the publication of his book God and Other Minds in 1967 with Cornell University Press he really began the renaissance of Christian philosophy in this country, and has continued to be at the forefront of it. So that is a brief thumbnail sketch would be the contribution of Alvin Plantinga.

Kevin Harris: And that went on through, [3] say, Stuart Hackett, maybe, in the 1970s?

Dr. Craig: I think Hackett was born before his time, Kevin. Stuart Hackett was my professor at Wheaton College, and it was his book Resurrection of Theism that awakened me to philosophy and to the kalam cosmological argument. Unfortunately Hackett's book The Resurrection of Theism was published in 1957 – ten years earlier than God and Other Minds – and it was published by Moody Press. If Hackett's book had been published by an academic press, like Cornell or Oxford University Press, I think the revolution in Christian philosophy that began with Plantinga's book would have begun ten years earlier . . .

Kevin Harris: So it may have been earlier.

Dr. Craig: . . . with The Resurrection of Theism. But as it was, Hackett's book fell into utter obscurity. Theism having been resurrected by Hackett fell immediately back into the grave, moribund, and it wasn't until ten years later with Plantinga's book that the renaissance of Christian philosophy really began. And then in Plantinga's train has followed numerous other philosophers such as Robert Adams and Dean Zimmerman and Trenton Merricks and Micheal Murray and myself and many, many others who have taken inspiration from his work.

Kevin Harris: What's important about this is that this is in the academy, this is in the mainstream of the profession and the universities, as opposed to being kind of in the ghetto, Christian colleges and so forth – nothing wrong with Christian Colleges, nothing wrong with any of that – but certainly it's a God-thing to make such an impact in the mainstream.

Dr. Craig: Plantinga began as a teacher at Calvin College, but then he moved to the University of Notre Dame because he believed that there he could help to build a department that would approach these subjects at a graduate level from a Christian point of view, and that was the task that he set himself at Notre Dame for many years. One of the things that struck me the most about the Set Forth Your Faith Conference, Kevin, was that at least half of the people who attended it were not from Johnson Ferry Baptist Church. On the Friday night I said to the audience, “I've met so many of you from out of town. I would like everyone who is not a regular attender here at JFBC to stand,” and to my shock about half the audience stood up, and I decided that one of the door prizes we would give away would be to a person who has traveled the longest distance to the conference. And I said, “who has come the longest distance just for the purpose of attending this conference?” And one fellow yelled out “Denmark!”, and another guy yelled out “Brazil!”, and there was somebody else from Capetown in South Africa, and then a couple of guys from Australia, and finally one guy yelled out “New Zealand!” and everybody laughed because we know that one couldn’t be beat. And so this was truly an international conference where people had come from all over the world to attend this conference. And that was tremendously encouraging to me. And the other thing that was very encouraging to me that was unexpected, Kevin, the number of women who are attending these apologetics conferences. Apologetics used to be so male-dominated, but now increasingly women are becoming interested in apologetics. And I think this is so exciting because I think the church for years has been condescending to women in treating them as just empty headed bundles of emotion who don't really have a mind, and aren't intellectually engaged. And that is really demeaning, I think. And the wonderful thing about these apologetics conferences is that women are treated as rational persons, just as much as men. And they are really responding to this approach. The other thing that I noticed at our Set Forth Your Case conference is the number of minorities that were in attendance. We're in a very white area of Atlanta, and so the church doesn’t have many minority people that attend the church regularly. But at the conference there was a significant number of racial minorities in attendance at the conference. And this, again, Kevin, is so encouraging because the black church subculture has not been characterized by intellectual engagement and the life of the mind and apologetics. And for this now to begin to enter into the black church and that subculture I think is going to be tremendously healthy for them.

Kevin Harris: We have a podcast coming up, and I want everyone to stand by because we're going to hear about Dr. Craig's encounter with Richard Dawkins in Mexico at an event called City of Ideas. It's all over YouTube—we're going to get some behind the scenes commentary and what really went on, right here. So you stand by on Reasonable Faith with Dr. William Lane Craig. [4]