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alex1212

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The ethics of male circumcision
« on: March 15, 2016, 10:21:51 AM »
Within applied ethics, specifically in bioethics, the issue of male circumcision is hotly debated by many Ethicists. Now I know to many or the majority of Americans, they will think I am joking when it comes to my position on male circumcision or they will think my position is quite literally a joke. But I think one reason for that is because the plausibility structures of our society make it to where we take it for granted in thinking the male circumcision is morally permissible; we often don't even think about the issue of male circumcision.

But within various normative ethical theories, we can make a plausible case against male circumcision. Let's take one such theory although there are more.

On deontology, we out to stick to rules, our duties/obligations, and preserving the rights of others. We are obliged to preserve the rights of others. Murder is wrong in itself and it takes away the rights of others by not treating them as ends in themselves. People have the right to life, so we have a duty to keep those rights. Now let's apply this to male circumcision.

People have the right to not have their body parts removed nor infringed upon without consent, unless removing that body part is necessary to save their life or avoid serious illness that threatens their life. The key is that consent must be preserved. Some might argue that there are health benefits to circumcision, which I doubt and are largely irrelevant reasons. Nevertheless, these minor health benefits can be consented to once the child is an adult who can make an informed decision. I wouldn't pierce someone's ears or belly button when they were a child. Neither would I cut part of their ear cartilage off. The fact is, the foreskin has a function. The function is to protect the penis. In addition, the foreskin is very sensitive and brings sexual pleasure.

I'm not here to condemn anyone. Rather, I want to have discussion and bring more awareness to this topic.

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Stephen

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 10:31:48 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

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aleph naught

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 10:32:47 AM »
Yeah no one should circumcise their son. There's no good reason to, it can lead to sexual health problems, and then there's the obvious moral aspect of causing gratuitous suffering and mutilating someone else's body without their consent.

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aleph naught

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 10:37:02 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

How is that analogous? It's the natural function of a nail or claw to grow continuously, and in our modern day environment they don't get worn down because we don't really use them. But they are supposed to get worn down or be reduced in size. This isn't mutilating the child, or causing suffering to him in any way. In fact, it's benefiting him because otherwise he might hurt himself with them.

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AnimatedDirt

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2016, 10:38:30 AM »
The fact is, the foreskin has a function. The function is to protect the penis. In addition, the foreskin is very sensitive and brings sexual pleasure.

I'm not here to condemn anyone. Rather, I want to have discussion and bring more awareness to this topic.

I don't have a foreskin and therefore my penis has been unprotected since a few days after being born.  I happen to know a lot of guys in my same boat.

I think I've experienced enough sexual encounters to say that I highly doubt I've missed out on some sexual pleasure(s) because I'm missing my foreskin.

I also find that most women ( that I've heard speak of this ) tend to prefer a foreskinless penis to one with the foreskin.  In fairness, I've also heard at least a few times, of women that love the foreskin more.

The moral of my story being that I've not yet found to be unprotected from anything without my foreskin.  I've found women prefer a foreskinless penis...could be a biased finding since I am circumcised.  If it were such an important protection of the penis as you cite, I hardly think God would have demanded such a practice.  Plus...I don't think it's a big deal given that this practice God demanded at one time, is no longer a demand of Him, but rather maybe more of a suggestion at this point similar to suggesting not to partake of strong drink too much or suggesting not to grieve the Holy Spirit.  It's usually for a better outcome.


People are amusing.

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Brian_G

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016, 10:38:49 AM »
My wife and I looked into circumcision when we had our son.  While there are some minor health benefits, I don't think they are very convincing.  (There's also minor heath benefits to smoking.)  One misconception that I had is that uncircumcised penis' require a bunch of extra care.  That's not true at all.  In fact, at the beginning it is just the opposite.  Circumcised boys require extra care because they come home from the hospital with a sore penis.  The parents are supposed to put ointment on it regularly.  You don't have to do anything for your uncircumcised newborn.  (It's a myth that your supposed to pull back the foreskin to clean it. This can actually cause injury on a newborn)

I've also read, that Jewish circumcision was much different from circumcision as it is practised today.  According to what I read the Jews originally only cut off the very tip of the foreskin; they didn't remove the whole thing.  I'd be interested to know if anyone can confirm what I read. 

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Stephen

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016, 10:46:10 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

How is that analogous? It's the natural function of a nail or claw to grow continuously, and in our modern day environment they don't get worn down because we don't really use them. But they are supposed to get worn down or be reduced in size. This isn't mutilating the child, or causing suffering to him in any way. In fact, it's benefiting him because otherwise he might hurt himself with them.

Analogous in the sense of cutting off a rather innocuous "body part" without consent.

I've seen no case showing that circumcision has any substantial health risks, save for a rare few (which could happen to anyone).

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Brian_G

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 10:48:46 AM »
"Was someone called after he had been circumcised? He should not try to undo his circumcision. " (1 Cor. 7:18)


As I understand it there was a practice in the ancient world where certain Jews would try to undo their circumcision by stretching the remaining foreskin over their penis.  This seems to support the notion that the circumcision wasn't a complete removal of the foreskin.

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alex1212

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 10:57:49 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

How is that analogous? It's the natural function of a nail or claw to grow continuously, and in our modern day environment they don't get worn down because we don't really use them. But they are supposed to get worn down or be reduced in size. This isn't mutilating the child, or causing suffering to him in any way. In fact, it's benefiting him because otherwise he might hurt himself with them.

Analogous in the sense of cutting off a rather innocuous "body part" without consent.

I've seen no case showing that circumcision has any substantial health risks, save for a rare few (which could happen to anyone).

Fingernails grow back. Quite a difference.

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alex1212

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 10:58:28 AM »
"Was someone called after he had been circumcised? He should not try to undo his circumcision. " (1 Cor. 7:18)


As I understand it there was a practice in the ancient world where certain Jews would try to undo their circumcision by stretching the remaining foreskin over their penis.  This seems to support the notion that the circumcision wasn't a complete removal of the foreskin.

You're right. The practice was quite different, it was done at the tip

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Questions11

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 10:59:02 AM »
I'm generally against circumcision unless for genuine health reasons.  Why cause unecessary suffering to an infant?

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alex1212

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 11:00:37 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

How is that analogous? It's the natural function of a nail or claw to grow continuously, and in our modern day environment they don't get worn down because we don't really use them. But they are supposed to get worn down or be reduced in size. This isn't mutilating the child, or causing suffering to him in any way. In fact, it's benefiting him because otherwise he might hurt himself with them.

Analogous in the sense of cutting off a rather innocuous "body part" without consent.

I've seen no case showing that circumcision has any substantial health risks, save for a rare few (which could happen to anyone).

That's totally backwards. If there's no benefit, why do it. The question is in regards to benefits, not the risks of doing the thing in question.

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aleph naught

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 11:19:55 AM »
What about cutting my infant's fingernails?

How is that analogous? It's the natural function of a nail or claw to grow continuously, and in our modern day environment they don't get worn down because we don't really use them. But they are supposed to get worn down or be reduced in size. This isn't mutilating the child, or causing suffering to him in any way. In fact, it's benefiting him because otherwise he might hurt himself with them.

Analogous in the sense of cutting off a rather innocuous "body part" without consent.

I've seen no case showing that circumcision has any substantial health risks, save for a rare few (which could happen to anyone).

The proper function of the part is relevant here, though. Merely removing a body part isn't the problem, the problem is that you're maiming the body.

And it does have sexual health risks:

"This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality."

Sure it's not the worst thing you could do to your child, but why would you ever want to cause any amount of unnecessary harm?

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AnimatedDirt

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 12:02:30 PM »
Sure it's not the worst thing you could do to your child, but why would you ever want to cause any amount of unnecessary harm?

Harm?

Just so that you'll know, my son happens to have thanked me for having him circumcised.  Apparently in HS, the guys that weren't circumcised were given a hard time in the locker room and by a few of the gals too...not that this practice is ok, but it happens...and I'm sure it happens in both directions depending on the status quo of the given group.

He doesn't even remember the pain, yet thanked me knowing it did cause him pain.  I asked if he was planning on doing the same to his boy?  He said he wasn't sure yet, but probably.

Go figure.
People are amusing.

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Hawke123

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Re: The ethics of male circumcision
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 02:06:14 PM »
I don't see what the big deal is.  I am circumcised and don't feel like I've been mistreated or something.
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