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[OrdinaryClay]

Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

[Aaron Massey]

You could be more specific? 

I dont think anyone has discussed the ressurection of the 7 wives. 

Are you saying we are like Saudducce's? That we just dont understand scripture?  Sometimes i dont think you understand it either, but atleast i have been specific not cryptic.

[kurros]

Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

Sure, could be, but many atheists here used to be Christians or have otherwise put a lot of effort into trying to understand scripture. Not me, I have never been convinced enough to burn time on such a thing, but certainly others here have. So if they don't understand it correctly then I think some significant blame falls on God for creating a holy book that is difficult to understand.

[Questions11]

Unless the only reasons for not being to understand the bible correctly are blameworthy and the responsibility of the reader.  Maybe the only reason people fail to understand spiritual stuff is because of moral failing on their part.  I find that entirely plauisble within a xtian framework.

[wonderer]

Unless the only reasons for not being to understand the bible correctly are blameworthy and the responsibility of the reader.  Maybe the only reason people fail to understand spiritual stuff is because of moral failing on their part.  I find that entirely plauisble within a xtian framework.

Ah, so the large majority of Christians who don't interpret the Bible as teaching Universalism, are blameworthy in a way which you are not?  Or is it vice versa?

I'm afraid this is a pretty lame response Q.  (Even if it is a pretty standard Christian [or just human] response.)

[Language-Gamer]

I've seen zero atheists here who one could reasonably claim have put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Maybe that's because I'm interested in things like hermeneutics or whatever, but that's my assessment.

[kurros]

I've seen zero atheists here who one could reasonably claim have put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Maybe that's because I'm interested in things like hermeneutics or whatever, but that's my assessment.

I'd say there are quite a few who've put in more effort than most Christians ever do. Besides, people have often argued here that you don't need fancy analysis to get the basic holy message from the bible, that the common man can understand it just fine, that that is the whole point. Very many atheists have easily put in that level of effort. And there are plenty of them who have put in effort way beyond that.

[Language-Gamer]

I've seen zero atheists here who one could reasonably claim have put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Maybe that's because I'm interested in things like hermeneutics or whatever, but that's my assessment.

I'd say there are quite a few who've put in more effort than most Christians ever do. Besides, people have often argued here that you don't need fancy analysis to get the basic holy message from the bible, that the common man can understand it just fine, that that is the whole point. Very many atheists have easily put in that level of effort. And there are plenty of them who have put in effort way beyond that.

A lot of this seems irrelevant to my point. I said: I don't know of a single atheist on RF who has put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Do you know of such a person? If so, can you tell me who it is?

[bdsimon]

Unless the only reasons for not being to understand the bible correctly are blameworthy and the responsibility of the reader.  Maybe the only reason people fail to understand spiritual stuff is because of moral failing on their part.  I find that entirely plauisble within a xtian framework.

Ah, so the large majority of Christians who don't interpret the Bible as teaching Universalism, are blameworthy in a way which you are not?  Or is it vice versa?

I personally find the possibility that many may be right in their interpretation of the Bible to be much more acceptable. Perhaps the intent of the author was to craft a message such that it would appeal to both Clay and Q? This seems likely for an all knowing being and lends itself nicely to differences in opinion about minutia.

Of course now that I have stated this, my brethren will declare me a heretic.

[kurros]

I've seen zero atheists here who one could reasonably claim have put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Maybe that's because I'm interested in things like hermeneutics or whatever, but that's my assessment.

I'd say there are quite a few who've put in more effort than most Christians ever do. Besides, people have often argued here that you don't need fancy analysis to get the basic holy message from the bible, that the common man can understand it just fine, that that is the whole point. Very many atheists have easily put in that level of effort. And there are plenty of them who have put in effort way beyond that.

A lot of this seems irrelevant to my point. I said: I don't know of a single atheist on RF who has put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Do you know of such a person? If so, can you tell me who it is?

If it isn't relevant to your point then it would seem that your point is irrelevant to this thread. And no I don't remember who has studied what, I just know that there are plenty of ex-Christians here, some of whom have studied the bible extensively. And it has also been raised that there is plenty of disagreement amongst Christians on what scripture says, have the ones who disagree with whatever you believe also simply not studied the bible hard enough?

[Language-Gamer]

I've seen zero atheists here who one could reasonably claim have put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Maybe that's because I'm interested in things like hermeneutics or whatever, but that's my assessment.

I'd say there are quite a few who've put in more effort than most Christians ever do. Besides, people have often argued here that you don't need fancy analysis to get the basic holy message from the bible, that the common man can understand it just fine, that that is the whole point. Very many atheists have easily put in that level of effort. And there are plenty of them who have put in effort way beyond that.

A lot of this seems irrelevant to my point. I said: I don't know of a single atheist on RF who has put in a lot of effort to understand the Bible. Do you know of such a person? If so, can you tell me who it is?

If it isn't relevant to your point then it would seem that your point is irrelevant to this thread. And no I don't remember who has studied what, I just know that there are plenty of ex-Christians here, some of whom have studied the bible extensively. And it has also been raised that there is plenty of disagreement amongst Christians on what scripture says, have the ones who disagree with whatever you believe also simply not studied the bible hard enough?

Alright, so you can't point to an atheist that undermines my claim. I wish you would have said that in fewer words. Don't worry, I'll keep searching.

[ArtD]

Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God? (Mar 12:24)

NO ONE understands scripture. That's why there are so many different Christian sects, and why Christians, supposedly under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, can't agree about how to be saved and about many, many other things.

[wonderer]

Unless the only reasons for not being to understand the bible correctly are blameworthy and the responsibility of the reader.  Maybe the only reason people fail to understand spiritual stuff is because of moral failing on their part.  I find that entirely plauisble within a xtian framework.

Ah, so the large majority of Christians who don't interpret the Bible as teaching Universalism, are blameworthy in a way which you are not?  Or is it vice versa?

I personally find the possibility that many may be right in their interpretation of the Bible to be much more acceptable. Perhaps the intent of the author was to craft a message such that it would appeal to both Clay and Q? This seems likely for an all knowing being and lends itself nicely to differences in opinion about minutia.

Of course now that I have stated this, my brethren will declare me a heretic.

LOL

[Nunovalente]

Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
(Mar 12:24)

Sure, could be, but many atheists here used to be Christians or have otherwise put a lot of effort into trying to understand scripture. Not me, I have never been convinced enough to burn time on such a thing, but certainly others here have. So if they don't understand it correctly then I think some significant blame falls on God for creating a holy book that is difficult to understand.

You seem to have a lot of time to try to convince us otherwise. Why else be on a christian forum?

[john doe]

Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God? (Mar 12:24)

NO ONE understands scripture. That's why there are so many different Christian sects, and why Christians, supposedly under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit, can't agree about how to be saved and about many, many other things.

Or if you like, everyone understands scripture but not necessarily in the same way.