A. Absolutely stunning how many atheists show up on the thread when it got derailed from the OP (have you ever met a person that embraced determinism as true) to "can we attempt to shoot down the notion of LFW but retain all of the terminology and the ability to freely choose cause if we can do that theism is false but we still have LFW will, er.. I mean.. we have everything that LFW has, just not the title cause that's associated with theism.."
Why is this so hard for you Richard? I know that solid oak doors are 99.9999% empty space. But my language still refers to them as being "solid". Does this mean that I don't really believe that solid oak doors are 99.9999% empty space? Does the fact I refer to them as heavy prove that I don't really believe they predominantly empty space?
Many atheists have defended determinism on this thread. And we have explained that a superficial treatment of language use as some sort of "gotcha" argument is embarrassingly juvenile. It is no more persuasive than the oak door example.
That's nonsense, what we have clearly seen here is:
1) atheists on this thread clinging to words that only make sense on LFW
2) atheists on this thread
refusing to endorse determinism (attacking LFW is not endorsing determinism)
3) atheists on this thread continuing to treat everyone as if they could have done differently.
4) atheists on this thread
actually rejecting the very definition of determinsim, repeatedly arguing against it even to the point of claiming that having the ability to freely choose is consistent with determinism!
There has not been a single atheist that has claimed that determinism is true (the actual determinsm, not the one fabricated by so many that has all of the traits of LFW except the name):
the metaphysical thesis that the facts of the past, in conjunction with the laws of nature, entail every truth about the future. According to this characterization, if determinism is true, then, given the actual past, and holding fixed the laws of nature, only one future is possible at any moment in time.
amazing stuff,
we actually have moot claiming that dennett claims determinsm includes the ability to freely choose, when Dennett is famous for saying the exact opposite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLGI5ocAYZM
I don't know how one explains this mystifying behavior on the part of the atheists on this thread.