Emuse: this thread is specifically to discuss whether or not you ever met a person that embraced determinism as true.
Please take your discussion of LFW to a different thread, thanks
So interesting how your posting frequency leapt up the instant you found the red herring..
You raised the issue of atheists not being prepared to defend determinism (running away etc) in this thread. I will therefore respond to the complaint in the same thread in which you made it.
Thanks.
again
no you didn't, you did what most atheists do, "LFW doesn't exist therefor determinism"
I'm happy to refute that on a different thread, please create one. thanks
And again, it's really interesting that you want nothing to do with defending determinism, you only want to attack LFW.
I stand corrected and have modified this post accordingly with apologies to Richard. My original post stands unaltered in Pat's reply below. "P1. ~D -> LFW" is logically equivalent to "P1. ~LFW -> D" if we apply modus tollens to the original conditional. Here is the proof ...
P1. LFW -> ~D
P2. LFW
C. :. ~D
And ...
P1. LFW -> ~D
P2. ~~D (D)
C. :. ~LFW
And ...
P1. D -> ~LFW
P2. LFW
C. :. ~D
Whereas my version ...
P1. ~D -> LFW
P2. ~D
C. :. LFW
And ...
P1. ~D -> LFW
P2. ~LFW
C. :. D
... then gives us ...
P1. ~LFW -> D
P2. ~D
P2. :. LFW
So "~D -> LFW" is logically equivalent to "~LFW -> D".
This requires some modification but only slightly (I don't see why my version is problematic particularly as we are talking about intentional beliefs only). So we have ...
P1. If I have reasons to believe P and I am unable to believe not-P then my belief in P is neither free nor random.
P2. I have reasons to believe that God exists and I am unable to believe that God does not exist.
C. Therefore, my belief that God exists is neither free nor random.
P3. If my belief that God exists is neither free nor random then my belief that God exists is determined.
C1. Therefore, my belief that God exists is determined.
P4. If my that God exists is determined then it is impossible that I could have believed that God does not exist.
C2. Therefore, it is impossible that I could have believed that God does not exist.
This would hold for anything we believe but we find impossible not to believe. Are there any problems with this?