Have you ever met a person that embraced determinism as true?

[RichardChad]

That would be a person who embraced the truth of:

Determinism: The world is governed by (or is under the sway of) determinism if and only if, given a specified way things are at a time t, the way things go thereafter is fixed as a matter of natural law.
  -- http://plato.stanford.edu/

Given the current arrangement of particles in the universe, thoughts and actions are fixed as a matter of natural law.
Not influenced, fixed.  Not by choice, but by physics.

Have you ever met a person that believed that:  it is true that under the assumption of determinism, one might say that given the way things have gone in the past, all future events that will in fact happen are already destined to occur.

Have you ever met a person that believed that?

[Rostos]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

[RichardChad]

Interesting video (I watched the entire thing), posted on another thread as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUBgBeNLk-w

August Berkshire - The Illusion of Free Will and Its Impact on Moral Responsibility

I have argued that determinism and compatabalism is EXACTLY as Mr. Berkshire describes in this video, not close, identical, and I mean eerily identical.

What's really interesting, is that virtually every single atheist in this forum has disagreed with the definitions and implications described by Mr. Berkshire, demonstrating a rejection of determinism.


A. I love his definition of compatabilism: "nothing impeding you from carrying out your un-free will". Aleph will hate it.

B. The one thing that strikes me as utterly Twilight Zone stuff, is the notion of a person urging others to embrace the reality of determinism. The notion of a person pointing to others and saying "gee, they are so stupid for not realizing we are determined to think what we think".

How is it possible it never occurred to Mr. Berkshire that if his world view is correct, the other person he's complaining about, is determined to think the way he is thinking? This situation could only be possible if Mr. Berkshire held an underlying belief in free will and is attempting to get people to freely chose to proclaim a belief in determinism.
From 30 minutes forward in the video dramatically illustrates this point, everything he discusses makes sense only on the ability to freely choose.

So, the search continues. I've still not yet encountered a person (and this include Mr. Berkshire) that actually believes in determinism.

[Emuse]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

Its almost as if you were determined not to meet anyone who holds to determinism.

[Rostos]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

Its almost as if you were determined not to meet anyone who holds to determinism.

Just like it was determined for Hitler to torture and murder 20 million people?

You dont put any blame on me for not meeting anyone who holds determinism to be true because it was determined all the way back from the big bang for me not to meet such people....YET, people hold Hitler responsible for torturing and murdering 20 million people...Why the double standard?

Emuse, i also believe you have a couple of children, is that correct? Just remember the next time they are naughty not to get angry or mad at them, i mean you wouldnt get mad at a wave for breaking a certain way, so why would you do that to your children?

[RichardChad]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

Its almost as if you were determined not to meet anyone who holds to determinism.

Emuse: do you claim determinism is true?

[Trinity]

If determinism is true, then there is nothing wrong with supporting Trump.

[RichardChad]

If determinism is true, then there is nothing wrong with supporting Trump.

Correct, If determinism is true there is nothing objectively right or wrong period.

[Rostos]

If determinism is true, then there is nothing wrong with supporting Trump.

Correct, If determinism is true there is nothing objectively right or wrong period.

Exactly because you cannot rationally affirm it.

[TheCross]

Determinism is only true on the academic platform, when god is the one you try to disprove.

[idunno]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

Its almost as if you were determined not to meet anyone who holds to determinism.

Chances are that's true.

[Emuse]

I have never in my life anyone (Atheist or Theist or Agnostic) that not only embraces but lives their life as if it is true.

I have also never met anyone (Atheist or Theist) that lives there life as if moral facts dont exist.

Its almost as if you were determined not to meet anyone who holds to determinism.

Chances are that's true.

Probably! ;-)

[bskeptic]

Both some atheists and some theists believe it. And yes, I think they really do believe it.

[bdsimon]

I am pretty sure I have had detailed discussions with zclub (theist) who embraces determinism and I would say all Calvinists embrace "all future events are determined to happen". There are a number of non-theists on here that embrace determinism (at least verbally and in argument). I would argue (and I suppose they might agree) that they live as if free will is true. I think that is why they also support the "free will is an illusion" theory which accounts for determinism being true and yet living as if free will is true.

[Emuse]

In addition, a person behaving in a way that is inconsistent with something they claim doesn't tell us very much.  Bob's claim to his son that "smoking is dangerous and heightens the risk of heart disease and various types of cancer" is not falsified by Bob stepping outside for a cigarette.