My Heart Breaks for Chicago

[Steve B]

Tonight, a peaceful rally in Chicago was disrupted by threats of violent uprising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfGCSoByAU8&feature=youtu.be&t=7

Please pray for us.

[wilsunphi]

Although i agree that at that point cancelling was the right decision, from what i read the police did not ask Trump to cancel the rally.

CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi tells The Associated Press that the department never told the Trump campaign there was a security threat at the University of Illinois at Chicago venue. He said the department had sufficient manpower on the scene to handle any situation.

Just to compare with how Ted Cruz handles such disruptions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QCbpafD3Pw

[wilsunphi]

Here is another one.  Watch Ted Cruz Get Ambushed By Angry Iowa Farmer, Then Turn Him Around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi5IZ9StVUI

[Steve B]

I  think what I find truly disturbing is that many of these violent protesters were supporters of Clinton or Bernie.  And rather than condemn their violent methods to try and break up a legally scheduled, peaceful, rally they try to blame Trump for inciting them to violence.

This is, by the way, a common theme of left wing thinkers.  I'm sorry. . . but it is.  They have a systemic way of encouraging immoral behavior by failing to encourage people to take personal responsibility for their own actions.  It's always someone elses fault.

I know politics can get people extremely emotional and personal for people.  But we mustn't forget who we are-- it is our ability to disagree with one another civilly that makes us who we are as a peoples. 

We should not be giving a tailwind to violent responses to peaceful rallies by trying to justify that violence in any way shape or form.

Here is a preacher talking about the reconciliation that our country desperately needs right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHZbB-M9oE

[Steve B]

By the way.  And this is key, if you want to protest someone's views you have that right-- but there is a legal way to do it and an illegal way to do it.

Most free countries, when you want to hold a rally, you have to schedule and register the rally through the local city or State office.  This makes it so that the police can be present at the event just in case anyone begins to get unruly.

If you want to oppose someone's views, you can set up a protest "counter rally" through the same city or State office.  The office will then give you a separate space where you can protest.

Of course that is how most free countries do it.  Rules may vary, slightly, depending on where you live.

The point is, and I'm angry that the candidates aren't pointing this out, these protesters are violating Trump's first amendment rights, and they are purposefully trying to bait Trump supporters and police into harming them.  That kind of behavior absolutely should not be encouraged.  By trying to blame Trump for their behavior, we are only giving them a tail wind for disrespecting the rule of law.  A lot of undecided voters come to these rallies to hear Trump for themselves so that they can decide if they want to vote for him or not.

And these disorderly people are purposefully violating the very first amendment of the US constitution.

[GotTheGift]

Trump and the Mob: A Theological Observation

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2016/02/trump-and-the-mob.html

[Soren]

I  think what I find truly disturbing is that many of these violent protesters were supporters of Clinton or Bernie.  And rather than condemn their violent methods to try and break up a legally scheduled, peaceful, rally they try to blame Trump for inciting them to violence.

This is, by the way, a common theme of left wing thinkers.  I'm sorry. . . but it is.  They have a systemic way of encouraging immoral behavior by failing to encourage people to take personal responsibility for their own actions.  It's always someone elses fault.

I know politics can get people extremely emotional and personal for people.  But we mustn't forget who we are-- it is our ability to disagree with one another civilly that makes us who we are as a peoples. 

We should not be giving a tailwind to violent responses to peaceful rallies by trying to justify that violence in any way shape or form.

Here is a preacher talking about the reconciliation that our country desperately needs right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCHZbB-M9oE

Yeah, let's not talk about Trump's security guys roughing up protesters and reporters, or Trump saying he wanted to punch a protester in the face to roars of approval from the crowd, as GotTheGift points out. I don't justify violence from anyone in the political discussion, but for you to claim that violence is a peculiarly left wing thing is a joke, and for you not to condemn violence from Trump and his minions is hypocritical. You're trivializing a serious issue by using it just to score political points.

[Steve B]

I didn't say violence is a left-wing thing.  I said making excuses rather than encouraging personal responsibility for one's actions tends to go hand-in-hand with left wing theory.  People of the left-wing are far more likely to see themselves as victims, rather than take on personal responsibility.  The left-wing theorists exploit this tendency by magnanimously saying "there there you poor thing." Essentially they work to maintain people's "victim mindset" in exchange for votes.

And look.  I'm speaking as a recovered alcoholic.  I could have easily blamed other people for my drinking (and sometimes I did).  It was only once I took personal responsibility for my own actions that my recovery became possible.  Trust me. . . it is not true kindness to enable someone's victim mindset. It only keeps them in a state of dependency (in exchange for votes).

And personally, I think people need to learn to take a joke.  But I'm aware a lot of America has become incredibly sensitive.  I think one factor that Trump is appealing to is how tired we are of the hyper-sensitivity we've created.

It's gotten to the point that people want freedom from speech.  They don't want freedom of speech.

People are smart.  They see the media trying to twist Trump's words.  And since that hasn't worked, now they are trying to silence Trump altogether.

What they forget is that America is the country that threw off a King who was the ultimate "spinster."  So the more you try and twist Trump's words, and the more you try to silence him illegally (and then blame him for these criminal activities), the more and more supporters Trump will get.

I'm surprised the Media and the protesters haven't quite grasped this dynamic yet. . .

[Soren]

I didn't say violence is a left-wing thing.  I said making excuses rather than taking personal responsibility tends to go hand-in-hand with left wing theory.

Personally, I think people need to learn to take a joke.  But I'm aware a lot of America has become incredibly sensitive.  I think one factor that Trump is appealing to is how tired we are of the hyper-sensitivity we've created.

It's gotten to the point that people want freedom from speech.  They don't want freedom of speech.

People are smart.  They see the media trying to twist Trump's words.  And since that hasn't worked, now they are trying to silence Trump altogether.

What they forget is that America is the country that threw off a King who was the ultimate "spinster."  So the more you try and twist Trump's words, and the more you try to silence him illegally, the more and more supporters Trump will get.

I'm surprised the Media hasn't quite understood this dynamic yet. . .

I am still waiting for you to criticize Trump's campaign for acting like thugs. and to criticize Trump to talk about punching protesters. Or do you excuse bad behavior for those you agree with politically?

[Steve B]

I am still waiting for you to criticize Trump's campaign for acting like thugs. and to criticize Trump to talk about punching protesters. Or do you excuse bad behavior for those you agree with politically?

Soren.  I categorically condemn any forms of violence (or any violations of the law for that matter) at organized rallies.  How many times do I need to disavow?

The problem is that opponents of Trump are putting a sail wind into such bad behavior by blaming Trump, rather than teaching people to take a joke and obey the law.  It's disappointing.  And I absolutely promise you it will backfire just like it always has.

[lapwing]

Although i agree that at that point cancelling was the right decision, from what i read the police did not ask Trump to cancel the rally.

CPD spokesman Anthony Guglielmi tells The Associated Press that the department never told the Trump campaign there was a security threat at the University of Illinois at Chicago venue. He said the department had sufficient manpower on the scene to handle any situation.

Just to compare with how Ted Cruz handles such disruptions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QCbpafD3Pw

Ted Cruz was telling a few pork pies to the woman with the anti-nuclear placard. Credit to him for giving her a voice, though. I don't think she was a plant.

[lapwing]

On the Chicago rally one has to beware of the Orgreave strategy: reverse the order of events and so make out that striking miners attacked mounted police first, when in fact the police were the first aggressors and tried to ride the miners down. I'm not saying that is the case here, but given that political capital is being made out of it, it is better to be sceptical about the truth of what actually happened. Facts can get twisted, especially if people are saying they were "Clinton/Sanders supporters".

Btw you do know that the Cologne robbers were not refugees from Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan, but were mostly a semi-organised gang from Morocco who were already resident in Germany. #justsaying

And if you say what difference does that make, they are still Arab/Muslim/brown skinned just remember that occasionally white people commit crimes as well.

[Soren]

I am still waiting for you to criticize Trump's campaign for acting like thugs. and to criticize Trump to talk about punching protesters. Or do you excuse bad behavior for those you agree with politically?

Soren.  I categorically condemn any forms of violence (or any violations of the law for that matter) at organized rallies.  How many times do I need to disavow?

The problem is that opponents of Trump are putting a sail wind into such bad behavior by blaming Trump, rather than teaching people to take a joke and obey the law.  It's disappointing.  And I absolutely promise you it will backfire just like it always has.

Trust me, I think Trump is a very good joke -- my only regret is that he has conned enough people like you that the joke may actually get elected. (And speaking of jokes, the media has given Trump ridiculous amounts of coverage in his own words -- they stayed on one of his speeches for an hour recently -- so when you talk about Trump being silenced or his words twisted, that also sounds like a joke.)

[Language-Gamer]

Soren,

I thought this was the part where you apologize to Steve and recant your allegations. Guess I was mistaken.

[Soren]

Soren,

I thought this was the part where you apologize to Steve and recant your allegations. Guess I was mistaken.

Either I am missing a joke here or you will have to explain why I should apologize for saying things that are true.