I believe in the existence of God and find the arguments for the existence of God (including the morality argument) very compelling. Therefore, I also believe in absolute/transcendent morality. However, I am struggling with the origin of evil.
God created everything out of NOTHING, i.e. NOTHING existed before God created us and this world. God could not have created evil. Then where does evil come from? If I try to trace back the origin of evil, the bible leads me to Lucifer. But where did Lucifer's pride come from? How did the concept of pride emerge in this world in the first place? Did God create "pride" so that Lucifer had a free choice?
Some, including Dr. Craig, argue that evil is the "privation" of good or the "opposite" of good. But is the privation of "love" really "hate"? Couldn't it be just "indifference"? Where did the concept "hate" or "jealousy" originate from? Let me give you another example. What is the opposite of homosexuality? Is homosexuality the privation of heterosexuality? Where does homosexuality come from? God clearly didn't "create" it?
One may argue that all the variations of sinful or evil nature are consequences of our original sin. But what is the origin of our original sin, going back to my Lucifer question?
Thank you.
hk: I believe in the existence of God and find the arguments for the existence of God (including the morality argument) very compelling. Therefore, I also believe in absolute/transcendent morality. However, I am struggling with the origin of evil.
jc: In asking for faith in God, Jesus really should have specified this meant worshipping the Opponent of Desire. Without this proviso humans fly into their most terrible rage upon hearing the slightest word about what God really expects from entities of intelligence. It should have been known at the outset that the angels are reverse-men, with spiritual rather than material motivations, and that while angels might befriend God, humans being the reverse of the divine offend Him with every thought, word and deed. This is the true religion, the God that cannot be reached. In this forum there is constant talk about God’s “infinite goodness,” but there is no practical discussion what it means.
hk: God created everything out of NOTHING, i.e. NOTHING existed before God created us and this world. God could not have created evil. Then where does evil come from?
jc: You don’t know the mechanism of creation, in particular the generation of the angels. The souls do not start out pure, and it is their impurity and lack of serious spiritual power that sends them into evil ways. A soul is a real thing, not merely the product of imagination. If you think the soul can be made easily pure, you have not seen the soul.
hk: If I try to trace back the origin of evil, the bible leads me to Lucifer.
jc: See, this bothers me, that people hear the name “Lucifer” and it is like a cartoon in their minds, but they don’t care if it is a cartoon. The Bible is extraordinarily vague in this region, giving warnings of hellfire but dropping the ball at any realistic description. In general humans are quick to accept there is an “evil one,” though basically it is them.
hk: But where did Lucifer's pride come from? How did the concept of pride emerge in this world in the first place? Did God create "pride" so that Lucifer had a free choice?
jc: The trouble of Lucifer is that any being with real power is going to be gentle and good. The idea of Lucifer can only be promulgated in the human realm, where the minds believe there is “fun” in doing evil and creating harm, and since they believe it to be fun they readily imagine a powerful being agreeing with their assessment. They’re in rebellion against the external God, even theists denying and wanting to kill the real God. Lucifer is only a symbol of humanity’s secret rebellion against harmony and love for the neighbor that God and any real angel supports and expects. However if a human could be made powerful while still impure, he might seem to be a demonic figure, like
this guy. Lucifer is the “snake oil salesman,” knowing best among mortals how to pretend to care, for his selfish benefit.
hk: Some, including Dr. Craig, argue that evil is the "privation" of good or the "opposite" of good.
jc: He’s correct in this. The realms of true goodness require power and purity. Lacking these the souls mill about in dark regions, taking false joys that harm creation rather than supporting it. When I say angels are reverse-men, I mean what gives angels joy brings pain to men, and what gives men joy brings pain to angels. All are trying to move toward what they perceive to be a better state for themselves, but the humans tend downwards.
hk: But is the privation of "love" really "hate"?
jc: You have to think carefully about the meaning of this term, “privation.” Hatred doesn’t arise as a simple negation or denial. These are entities INCAPABLE of love. As they hate, it is their uttermost skill, not the reverse pole of a better position they could have taken. In general hatred arises when the impure souls feel that desire is threatened, and in general a man feels everyone outside his family threatens his joys, therefore he is suspicious of all. Human have set up their society as constant competition, because of this root suspicion. Again, it can’t be overcome by asking for love, for it’s beyond their skills.
hk: Couldn't it be just "indifference"?
jc: You can’t ask humans to love their neighbor, and so the religions were built in pursuit of toleration instead, and in this they’ve been relatively successful. This is why Jesus couldn’t finish His sentence, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” by mentioning this means treating the neighbor as well as the children are treated, which is the place people really should be looking to see where they are coming close to this ideal. To fill out the thought some more, this would have meant a poor man could expect a house and an education, not merely a cot on cold nights and one meal a day. The language to end poverty is easy.
hk: Where did the concept "hate" or "jealousy" originate from?
jc: Hatred and jealousy do not know themselves. Every man feels righteous! Unfortunately the effect is universal. As one man cuts himself off in isolation from his fellow men, saying, “They deserve to be hated,” they are simultaneously cutting themselves off from him. This can be called one of God’s greatest challenges, the created souls don’t like each other and don’t have the higher intelligence for a harmonious world.
hk: Let me give you another example. What is the opposite of homosexuality? Is homosexuality the privation of heterosexuality?
jc: To answer this will invoke intense hatred in many, but in general this is the correct assessment. The key is that God never makes a mistake, in assigning the souls to bodies.
hk: Where does homosexuality come from? God clearly didn't "create" it?
jc: Again the answer is impurity and lack of power in the souls. No one wants to hear it.
hk: One may argue that all the variations of sinful or evil nature are consequences of our original sin.
jc: Men were left without a useful definition of original sin in the religions, meaning there is little to no meaningful ideation about it. In general what we have been discussing can be called original sin, which is man’s mutual mistrust and hatred that led to a world of competition instead of a world of cooperation. Men are cantankerous, born to trouble as the sparks fly upward. If it’s a predictable state of the soul they still bear responsibility.
hk: But what is the origin of our original sin, going back to my Lucifer question?
jc: It can be called a wrong perception. The angels see that all are created souls, and delight in working alongside the Maker to generate a situation of beauty and harmony. Humans by contrast see a world of material objects, in which the other people are little more than “moving objects” hence considered more valuable as more prowess is required for domination. To get the right vision of creation the soul must be witnessed, not just heard about (that leaves the heart unchanged). One must learn to rejoice in another’s joy.
