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Craig vs Carroll

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demosthenes

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common ground
« on: July 18, 2014, 10:52:15 AM »
Hello,

I am new to this forum. I saw the debate and have some questions.

Me: I am a secular dane (i guess what you would call "cultural Christian"). I am not sure if there is a God, and I have a candidate in math and physics (specializing in the mathematics of non-relativistic quantum mechanics).

I think that in many of these debates the two sides talk right past each other, because the words seems to take on different meanings on each side of the table. The fact that my native language is not english might also play a role here, I apologize for bad language. I try to at least use a spell checker...

So to make the points for and against KCA come out clearer, could anyone help me with good definitions for:

time

space

God

cause / effect

- and this is very sincerely meant, I'm not trying to set up any logical trap, but as a physicist these concepts are extremely
slippery, and I would like to see what your definitions of these are. Basically space/time are variables in physicists formulae. Most teachers will dodge anyone asking "what is time"
by some coughing and mumbling about entropy -- which is sort of ok, when the focus of the lessons are the formulae, not the nature of the variables.

In the issues debated here, these concepts are at the center stage, so they should be well defined.

I can give a shot at my current understanding...

Time:
In our everyday life time is what our clocks measure, a concept that enables us to meet each other at a cafe etc.
But when examined carefully, time and space are connected, which is experimentally confirmed.
Time is something that matter with mass experience (to a light photon, time does not change). Time is a "current" that all things flow in -- as described Einsteins theory of relativity. Time is a kind of "index" that has a unique incrementing value for each moment we/I experience (but there is no "master time", time is a relative concept between inertial frames). You cannot stop time, but there are intricate ways of manipulating it by being close to matter, being accelerated... it gets very complicated. Entropy, the measure of the disorder of a  isolated system
is a non-decreasing function of time -- this is called the 2nd law of thermodynamics (experimentally never disproven, and very resiliant to changes in physical theories).

Space:
Space is the thing that when we run out of it, we bump into each other and things. Measured by rulers (within inertial frames), probably the easiest to define operationally.


Causality:
(here i'm probably more out of my depth, as this seems to tie directly into the KCA)
The very complex slippery concept of time allows us to use the word "before", which again allows to connect events - the cause happening before the effect.

God:
Here I'm totally out of my depth. I guess God should be the supernatural, intelligent?, cause of everything, - the Cristian God as being described in the bible, also the cause for miracles (which should be defined).

But how would you define these basic concepts you all seem to think a lot about?

(and also, please define free will, intelligence, miracle...)

All the best,
Michael

(edited for clarity)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:08:45 AM by demosthenes »
Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. - Niels Bohr.

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demosthenes

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Re: common ground
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 02:58:14 AM »
Noone?

If I where debating "the perfect pie dough" -- it would not be much of a debate if the words flour, fat and water meant different things to each debater.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 03:23:50 AM by demosthenes »
Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think. - Niels Bohr.