troyjs wrote: es x chooses to de what x chooses to do, but x does not choose who x is.
In my initial post, I defined x as being a sinner. x is a sinner because x sins, and x sins because x chooses to sin.
x is a sinner because x chooses to sin, therefore x implicitly chooses to be a sinner.
x murders p because x chose to murder p, therefore x chooses to be a murder of p.
Obviously I don't mean that x can choose to be a bird or a car -- the context is regards to sin and will.
The question is: can , under calvinism, x, who God predetined to sin choose not to sin?
If he can, then he is not predestined. If he cannot, then he doesn't choose.
Since , according to calvinism, my wanting to kill him was programmed by God and I can't change my programming I am not responsible for anything.
You commit the genetic fallacy. Explaining how something is the case, does not refute the idea that something is in fact the case.
Of course not, my explaining how predistination is the case does not refute the idea that predstination is the case.
Analyse this analytic statement:
If God creates person x who is responsible for his actions, then person x is responsible for his actions.
That is logically impossible. It is impossible to create actions and not be responsible for them.
God is responsible for everything that happens. I don't know why this is such a big problem. God is the boss, He decides what happens. So, why calvinists go to all the trouble trying to make excuses for God is completely beyond me.
Read A W Pink's 'The Sovereignty of God', then tell me that calvinists make excuses for God.
I do not know whether Pink does, but you seem to do so.
Of course God is responsible for everything. It is just that you deny the possibility of God using sinners for Holy causes.
No, I don't. I don't deny the possibility of someone using a hammer to kill somebody either.
God determines to destroy 2 particular murderers. God uses each murderer to kill the other out of their individual murderous nature. God destroys both murderers in just judgement, and the murderers kill each other in sin. In the one act, the murderers are committing sin, while God is acting according to righteousness.
You forget the God also determines their murderous nature, troyjs
God does not need an excuse if He wants to torture people for eternity. If He likes to do that, who are we to say He can't?
Because God has an unchanging character, and He has revealed His character to us, then God will not do anything in contradiction to what He has revealed to us.
I have never said that God does anything in contradiction to what he has revealed to us.
He has revealed why people will suffer in hell for eternity. It is because sinners are responsible for their sin, while God is responsible for His judgement upon sinners in their judgement, which is good.
God judges that people deserve eternal punishment for a sin that they could not avoid.
Is there a possible world in which, if God has predestined that x kills y, x can choose not to kill y?
Then the 'choice' to kill x is not a choice after all.