Question about the "Cause" in the KCA

[Interest12345]

In the premise "Everything that begins to exist has a cause", I can think of some things that require an intelligent mind in order for them to begin to exist, such as houses, cars, televisions, etc. But, in nature, I can think of many other things that begin to exist whose cause is not an intelligent mind. When we try to ascertain the cause of the Universe, we can say that the cause must be immaterial and timeless. But, given that mindless causes can create things in nature, how can we know that the cause of the universe is a mind?

[DT1213]

I'm new to this forum and such kind of debates however I will try to help. Notice that you are actually agreeing with the first 2 premises of the argument - 1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause, 2) The universe began to exist.
Your issue seems to be whether the cause of the Universe is material or immaterial - since what we observe seems to all be caused by material stuff.

I believe Craig has answered this question here:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/must-everything-that-begins-to-exist-have-a-material-cause

I am still studying these arguments but I hope that helps.

[lucious]

Craig gives arguments for why the cause must be personal.

[belorg]

Craig gives arguments for why the cause must be personal.

But actually, the cause can't be personal.

[Emuse]

Craig gives arguments for why the cause must be personal.

But actually, the cause can't be personal.

Argh! Not again! *starts twitching *

I agree btw ;-)

[Emuse]

Well for starters, because God must be temporal to cause the universe under Craig's view the claim that the cause must be timeless is already falsified by further embellishments to the argument.

[lucious]

Craig gives arguments for why the cause must be personal.

But actually, the cause can't be personal.

Yes it can.