Retired Boards (Archived)
Christian Particularism
Posted by: jayceeii
« on: December 04, 2019, 05:22:47 PM »jayciiii,If humans go to Heaven they’ll bring sin with them. They conceive they’d like to be free of sin but the reality is far different, for sin is their very nature, from which they cannot part. If there is a path to getting free from sin Jesus didn’t mention it, though the Buddha might have done so. You haven’t really understood about sin, if you think it is just carnal pleasures. Sin is every moment of uncooperativeness with man and rebellion against God.
In Heaven sin has no hold.on anything or anyone. Heaven as Christ relates is not a place of carnal pleasure as you seem to think. It's a place of glory and love absent sin. You seem to presuming otherwise, so you're contriving your own religion, not dealing with Christ and His Gospel.
Religions are contrived by those the angels deem worthy to undertake such a role, so I’m flattered if you think I’m contriving one. But one would hope religion to be based upon objective truth, that the angels can also sample so they can verify most that is spoken. I proceed without hopes of a reception, yet am strangely moved to say a little here or there. The Bible is bad news for modern man, and the news is the creatures will kill the Creator.
Posted by: Triple Scooby
« on: December 04, 2019, 11:13:15 AM »In Heaven sin has no hold.on anything or anyone. Heaven as Christ relates is not a place of carnal pleasure as you seem to think. It's a place of glory and love absent sin. You seem to presuming otherwise, so you're contriving your own religion, not dealing with Christ and His Gospel.
Posted by: jayceeii
« on: February 22, 2019, 10:30:32 AM »You're entitled to your opinion, of course. As someone who appears to be a non-theist, I doubt you believe in Heaven to begin with, so I see no point in having a discussion, when we start with radically different assumptions.My point is that humans are not happy on Earth, and would not be happy in Heaven either. All thought about Heaven has been extremely primitive, presuming it will be the place where desire is satisfied and there is no work. All imagine quarrels and wars will cease, but they are sure the other parties will cease first, and haven’t understood their minds are still quarrelsome and so these are not problems they could leave behind them.
Posted by: CorneliusC
« on: February 21, 2019, 11:28:02 PM »We know that certain saints are in Heaven: men like Augustine, More, and Bonhoeffer, along with women like Mother Teresa, Katharine Drexel, and Mary the Theotokos.When you say, “we know,” here, logically the statement reduces to, “Catholics believe,” or, “Certain people teach.” It is not actual knowledge, it is speculation, or presumption. I am curious if you see what your mind is doing, as you say, “We know,” if humans don’t really know. This is a typical habit of religionists, and I’m wondering if you, personally, can see that this is not knowledge, although you have said that it is. If it is knowledge, then please list your proofs or evidence. I find this a bit baffling. When I say, “I know,” I mean that I really know and can usually demonstrate it or at least provide compelling evidence. For instance, I’ve studied Augustine and Teresa among those you list, and have shown by lengthy argument they are entering certain states defined in the East, which are not the states of those about to enter Heaven. So I say I know that they are not in Heaven.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course. As someone who appears to be a non-theist, I doubt you believe in Heaven to begin with, so I see no point in having a discussion, when we start with radically different assumptions.
Posted by: jayceeii
« on: February 21, 2019, 10:17:35 AM »We know that certain saints are in Heaven: men like Augustine, More, and Bonhoeffer, along with women like Mother Teresa, Katharine Drexel, and Mary the Theotokos.When you say, “we know,” here, logically the statement reduces to, “Catholics believe,” or, “Certain people teach.” It is not actual knowledge, it is speculation, or presumption. I am curious if you see what your mind is doing, as you say, “We know,” if humans don’t really know. This is a typical habit of religionists, and I’m wondering if you, personally, can see that this is not knowledge, although you have said that it is. If it is knowledge, then please list your proofs or evidence. I find this a bit baffling. When I say, “I know,” I mean that I really know and can usually demonstrate it or at least provide compelling evidence. For instance, I’ve studied Augustine and Teresa among those you list, and have shown by lengthy argument they are entering certain states defined in the East, which are not the states of those about to enter Heaven. So I say I know that they are not in Heaven.
Posted by: CorneliusC
« on: February 20, 2019, 12:18:53 PM »I believe that non-Christians can enter Heaven, if they truly seek truth, and fail to find it before dying. However, Jesus is always the preferred path to salvation. See Romans 2.
Posted by: Othello Orson
« on: November 15, 2012, 12:33:19 AM »They all believe in the same god, the Jews are the "chosen ones of god" who wrote the coming of the Messiah prophecy (their own prophecy) and disagree that the prophecy has been fulfilled (which only they could know), god sent an angel to Muhammad to tell him the true story of himself and you believe in this debatable person, Jesus, the others don't accept and you're debating who's going and who's not going to heaven?
Not to mention, if the world wide trend continues, Islam will end up having the largest following of any religion on earth so making them axed out of heaven for not believing in the same god the right way a rather serious loss to god not to mention invalidating his original philosophy of what he represented.
So at the "Pearly gates" gods going to say to Jews and Muslims nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, I spread three theories of myself and you chose poorly, off to hell.
Are you listening to yourselves?
I means, seriously. I'm glad I don't need to play this game:
"My gods better then yours" and it's all the same god?! Your kidding right?
Posted by: sharky
« on: October 08, 2012, 05:39:07 PM »<P>I don't see anything in that verse that distinguishes Jews from anyone else. The plan of salvation is open to everyone, even Jews. Because of Jesus on the cross, all humanity has potential salvation.</P>
Hi Bill Clute; my sentiments exactly, a sage once provided me with a unique perspective that at the Last Judgement, it wasn't going to be an instantaneous decision as multitudes of humanity had never had the chance to be aware of Rabbi Yeshua the Messiah, and many, many of those that did, though they believed, had been taught a distorted version of who this most remarkable man was, hence there would be a period of remedial training by professionals, perhaps YHWHs malakim/angels, who would inform these countless multitudes of the truth, then, given their Free Will, they would be given the opportunity to make the choice of joining YHWHs and Yeshuas family or to be extinguished. It is YHWH who owns all souls.
Though YHWH can certainly destroy the soul of the most degenerate, unrepentant, many souls will need purification, the Hell will be a period of intense reflection upon our transgressions and separation from the Light of God.
Posted by: Stuart John Watt
« on: August 19, 2012, 02:57:47 PM »ksilvey10 wrote: God won't force anybody to go to heaven. We're operating under the assumption that God sends people to hell against their will.
This is a very important point. God doesn't send people to hell - they go to hell freely because they don't accept God's attempts to save them.
Anyone who has heard the Good News and rejected it won't get into heaven. To those who have not heard it; they will be judged based on their response to General Revelation.
Posted by: ksilvey10
« on: December 27, 2011, 04:37:00 PM »Posted by: Donald Shomody
« on: June 27, 2011, 08:13:29 PM »john wrote: How about me?
Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.
enquiringly
John
Doing good deeds, like kindness to your dog, etc, doesn't really bridge the gap between man and God caused by individual sin. Sin is disobeying God. Sin can be either active or passive...that is ignoring God and just going about your independent way. Everyone sins and everyone's life belongs to God but each person must decide to surrender his or her life and will to God or not. God won't make them do it. God promises complete and immediate forgiveness of sins and eternal life when you turn to Him and receive Jesus into your life.
It's a free gift. You can't earn it through good deeds or religion. If you think that God is out to cheat you out of your life or make you a weirdo then you believe a lie of the Devil. It really is just the opposite.
Jesus said that He came to give us life and give it abundantly. If you honestly search your heart you will see that this is true. If you just bow your head and heart and Ask God to forgive you and come into your life in jesus' name then in that moment He will. Awesome and wonderful things will happen if you pray that prayer sincerely. If you want to but can't then ask Him to help you (i did) and God will move heaven and earth to help you come to Him.
Don 
Posted by: Thomas Larsen
« on: June 19, 2011, 10:31:10 PM »As Paul writes in Romans 2,
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will repay each person according to what they have done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Ultimately, though, I don't think debates of this kind are particularly helpful. God will surely do what is just and right; trust him, rather than arguing about all the details; and follow his clear commission to go out and make disciples of all nations, representing the kingdom of God on Earth.
Posted by: FNB - Former non-believer
« on: June 19, 2011, 05:53:23 PM »john wrote: How about me?
Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.
enquiringly
John
I don't know you personally, but just based on the above comment I thought it would be good to post this,
"Religion is so great a thing that it is right that those who will not take the trouble to seek it, if it be obscure, should be deprived of it."
- Blaise Pacal
Posted by: john wickenden
« on: June 19, 2011, 01:22:59 AM »Not much time for gods and certainly not the Christian God but I took trouble to make my dog Jack happy this morning.
enquiringly
John
Posted by: Joseph Evensen
« on: June 18, 2010, 02:50:42 PM »=p