Retired Boards (Archived)
Trinity
Posted by: Aaron Massey
« on: September 21, 2015, 07:02:37 AM »I do not read Genesis literally. When Jesus said he is the light of the world I take it to mean things like revealing truth, a beacon to see truth, things of that sort. Every time he uses it he is using it metaphorically and often in contrast to spiritual darkness.
In John 1:1, which you quote, it says Jesus is a word. Do you take it to mean in addition to Jesus being light photons he is also sound waves? If you take Jesus as being light literally why do you not take it literal when it says that Jesus--the Word--is God?
So you dont read Gensis literally, so you would be open to seeing Jesus as "the light of this world" and in Gensis being the light that entered it. Then all things created through him and for him.
That same metaphor applies.
"the word" not a Word, it is an abstract, not a concrete. by word it is meant that he is the messenger AKA Messiah who is bringing Gods word to us. He is literally God in spirit of his fathers "word" (all the things Jesus has been told to say by his father)
Posted by: Robert Harris
« on: July 08, 2015, 09:05:10 AM »I do not read Genesis literally. When Jesus said he is the light of the world I take it to mean things like revealing truth, a beacon to see truth, things of that sort. Every time he uses it he is using it metaphorically and often in contrast to spiritual darkness.
In John 1:1, which you quote, it says Jesus is a word. Do you take it to mean in addition to Jesus being light photons he is also sound waves? If you take Jesus as being light literally why do you not take it literal when it says that Jesus--the Word--is God?
In John 1:1, which you quote, it says Jesus is a word. Do you take it to mean in addition to Jesus being light photons he is also sound waves? If you take Jesus as being light literally why do you not take it literal when it says that Jesus--the Word--is God?
Posted by: Aaron Massey
« on: July 08, 2015, 05:07:59 AM »So Jesus is just a bunch of photons? Really? Sorry I do not mean to be insulting but have you given that serious thought? In every verse that Jesus is described as light, such as John 8:12, it is used metaphorically and being contrasted with darkness which is like wickedness or ungodliness. There is nothing that is physical darkness in the same way you assume Jesus is physical light; the analogy Jesus is using would not work.
Well firstly, do you take Genesis literally, or as a Creation metaphor or sorts?
What do you think Jesus meant when he said he was "the light of this world?"
WHy does John use terms saying the Light shines in the darkness etc.. and makes reference to Genesis:
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
n him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Posted by: Robert Harris
« on: July 07, 2015, 09:31:11 AM »So Jesus is just a bunch of photons? Really? Sorry I do not mean to be insulting but have you given that serious thought? In every verse that Jesus is described as light, such as John 8:12, it is used metaphorically and being contrasted with darkness which is like wickedness or ungodliness. There is nothing that is physical darkness in the same way you assume Jesus is physical light; the analogy Jesus is using would not work.
Posted by: Aaron Massey
« on: July 04, 2015, 09:19:47 PM »QuoteAnd he did, he was Gods first Creation once the Heavens and Earth where made. "Let there be Light!"
Jesus is never described as physical light. Why do you think Jesus is a created being? For clarification I mean is there a verse that you think is explicit that he was created? If you do not think there is an explicit verse what verse(s) would you use that cause you to think he is?
Jesus Claims more than 3 times to be the light of this world. He is also the Bright morning star. What was the first thing to come into the "dark formless" world? Where Gods spirit hovered over it?
Light! Jesus was brought into the world. "let there be light" Light comes from Stars, Jesus is the brightest morning star. And all things come from jesus, and all things come from stars as they are the factorys of planets everything..
I take this meaning both ways, Literal and Metaphorical, genesis has 2 meanings. Light is needed for Life in reality. And Jesus is need for Life. Both come into the world at the same time.
You dont have to accept that, thats just my own personal view. I think it stacks up very well.
Posted by: Robert Harris
« on: July 04, 2015, 10:11:26 AM »Quote
And he did, he was Gods first Creation once the Heavens and Earth where made. "Let there be Light!"
Jesus is never described as physical light. Why do you think Jesus is a created being? For clarification I mean is there a verse that you think is explicit that he was created? If you do not think there is an explicit verse what verse(s) would you use that cause you to think he is?
Posted by: Aaron Massey
« on: July 04, 2015, 07:35:23 AM »And he did, he was Gods first Creation once the Heavens and Earth where made. "Let there be Light!"QuoteBut the incredible thing is that John was 6 months old BEFORE his Creator was born.Jesus claimed he existed before Abraham. This destroys your thesis.
Posted by: boomer15
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« on: December 06, 2014, 05:49:19 AM »Quote
But the incredible thing is that John was 6 months old BEFORE his Creator was born.Jesus claimed he existed before Abraham. This destroys your thesis.
Posted by: Maxximiliann
« on: November 28, 2014, 08:54:46 AM »
How do you know your particular flavor of the Trinity Doctrine is the right one and all others, i.e.,
1. Modalism
2. Latin Trinitarianism
2.1 Divine Life Stream Theories
2.2 Relative Identity Theories
3. Social Trinitarianism
3.1 Functional Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.2 Trinity Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.3 Perichoretic Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.4 Group Mind Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
4. Mysterianism
4.1 Negative Mysterianism
4.2 Positive Mysterianism,
are wrong?
By the standard of scripture, of course.
To what specific Bible passages are you referring to?
Posted by: Will
« on: November 25, 2014, 08:39:12 AM »QuoteThe Trinity teachers claim that Jesus is God. This immediately makes John God's second cousin, and makes John 6 months older than God - and man was here on earth thousands of years BEFORE God was born. This is ridiculous, but it gets even better.
Don't trinity teachers teach that Jesus is a man with all these manly relations?
No. They teach that Jesus IS God Almighty.
So the athanasian creed doesn't affirm the humanity of the Christ?
No. It teaches that he was both fully man and fully God, you know like a married-bachelor, dehydrated rain or gelatinous diamonds ...
Since the creed states: One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. , your counter example of a married-bachelor doesn't work.
How so? Please elaborate.
When it's stated that John is both married and not-married at the same time and same sense, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Since the 2nd person of the trinity took on flesh, the substances not confused, it is not the claim that the 2nd person is both spirit and flesh, God and Man, at the same time and in the same sense.
So you're claim is that Jesus was fully man, not Almighty God or a God-man? (whatever that means ...)
No. As man, he is fully man; as God, he is fully God. As the creed states, he is one altogether by unity of person, not by confusion of substance.
How do you know your particular flavor of the Trinity Doctrine is the right one and all others, i.e.,
1. Modalism
2. Latin Trinitarianism
2.1 Divine Life Stream Theories
2.2 Relative Identity Theories
3. Social Trinitarianism
3.1 Functional Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.2 Trinity Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.3 Perichoretic Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.4 Group Mind Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
4. Mysterianism
4.1 Negative Mysterianism
4.2 Positive Mysterianism,
are wrong?
By the standard of scripture, of course.
Posted by: Maxximiliann
« on: November 25, 2014, 06:52:27 AM »QuoteThe Trinity teachers claim that Jesus is God. This immediately makes John God's second cousin, and makes John 6 months older than God - and man was here on earth thousands of years BEFORE God was born. This is ridiculous, but it gets even better.
Don't trinity teachers teach that Jesus is a man with all these manly relations?
No. They teach that Jesus IS God Almighty.
So the athanasian creed doesn't affirm the humanity of the Christ?
No. It teaches that he was both fully man and fully God, you know like a married-bachelor, dehydrated rain or gelatinous diamonds ...
Since the creed states: One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. , your counter example of a married-bachelor doesn't work.
How so? Please elaborate.
When it's stated that John is both married and not-married at the same time and same sense, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Since the 2nd person of the trinity took on flesh, the substances not confused, it is not the claim that the 2nd person is both spirit and flesh, God and Man, at the same time and in the same sense.
So you're claim is that Jesus was fully man, not Almighty God or a God-man? (whatever that means ...)
No. As man, he is fully man; as God, he is fully God. As the creed states, he is one altogether by unity of person, not by confusion of substance.
How do you know your particular flavor of the Trinity Doctrine is the right one and all others, i.e.,
1. Modalism
2. Latin Trinitarianism
2.1 Divine Life Stream Theories
2.2 Relative Identity Theories
3. Social Trinitarianism
3.1 Functional Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.2 Trinity Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.3 Perichoretic Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
3.4 Group Mind Monotheist Social Trinitarianism
4. Mysterianism
4.1 Negative Mysterianism
4.2 Positive Mysterianism,
are wrong?
Posted by: Will
« on: November 24, 2014, 02:34:48 PM »QuoteThe Trinity teachers claim that Jesus is God. This immediately makes John God's second cousin, and makes John 6 months older than God - and man was here on earth thousands of years BEFORE God was born. This is ridiculous, but it gets even better.
Don't trinity teachers teach that Jesus is a man with all these manly relations?
No. They teach that Jesus IS God Almighty.
So the athanasian creed doesn't affirm the humanity of the Christ?
No. It teaches that he was both fully man and fully God, you know like a married-bachelor, dehydrated rain or gelatinous diamonds ...
Since the creed states: One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. , your counter example of a married-bachelor doesn't work.
How so? Please elaborate.
When it's stated that John is both married and not-married at the same time and same sense, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Since the 2nd person of the trinity took on flesh, the substances not confused, it is not the claim that the 2nd person is both spirit and flesh, God and Man, at the same time and in the same sense.
So you're claim is that Jesus was fully man, not Almighty God or a God-man? (whatever that means ...)
No. As man, he is fully man; as God, he is fully God. As the creed states, he is one altogether by unity of person, not by confusion of substance.
Posted by: Maxximiliann
« on: November 21, 2014, 07:07:07 PM »QuoteThe Trinity teachers claim that Jesus is God. This immediately makes John God's second cousin, and makes John 6 months older than God - and man was here on earth thousands of years BEFORE God was born. This is ridiculous, but it gets even better.
Don't trinity teachers teach that Jesus is a man with all these manly relations?
No. They teach that Jesus IS God Almighty.
So the athanasian creed doesn't affirm the humanity of the Christ?
No. It teaches that he was both fully man and fully God, you know like a married-bachelor, dehydrated rain or gelatinous diamonds ...
Since the creed states: One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. , your counter example of a married-bachelor doesn't work.
How so? Please elaborate.
When it's stated that John is both married and not-married at the same time and same sense, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Since the 2nd person of the trinity took on flesh, the substances not confused, it is not the claim that the 2nd person is both spirit and flesh, God and Man, at the same time and in the same sense.
So you're claim is that Jesus was fully man, not Almighty God or a God-man? (whatever that means ...)
Posted by: Will
« on: November 21, 2014, 07:04:49 AM »QuoteThe Trinity teachers claim that Jesus is God. This immediately makes John God's second cousin, and makes John 6 months older than God - and man was here on earth thousands of years BEFORE God was born. This is ridiculous, but it gets even better.
Don't trinity teachers teach that Jesus is a man with all these manly relations?
No. They teach that Jesus IS God Almighty.
So the athanasian creed doesn't affirm the humanity of the Christ?
No. It teaches that he was both fully man and fully God, you know like a married-bachelor, dehydrated rain or gelatinous diamonds ...
Since the creed states: One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. , your counter example of a married-bachelor doesn't work.
How so? Please elaborate.
When it's stated that John is both married and not-married at the same time and same sense, it violates the law of non-contradiction. Since the 2nd person of the trinity took on flesh, the substances not confused, it is not the claim that the 2nd person is both spirit and flesh, God and Man, at the same time and in the same sense.